On
this date, 3 February 2012, Kang Kek Iew AKA Comrade Duch was sentenced to life
imprisonment by the Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia. I will
post the information about him from Wikipedia and other sources before giving
my comments.
Kang Kek Iew A.K.A Comrade Duch (PHOTO
SOURCE: http://asianhistory.tumblr.com/post/25279048532/collective-history-kang-kek-iew-also-known-as)
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Kang Kek Iew (also Kaing Guek Eav or Duch)
before the Extraordinary
Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia.
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Born
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17 November 1942
Kampong Chen, Kampong Thom Province, French Indochina |
Nationality
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Cambodian
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Other names
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Comrade Duch
Hang Pin |
Years active
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1975–1979
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Known for
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Director of the S-21 prison camp, Leader of Santebal
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Religion
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Christianity
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Kang Kek Iew
or Kaing Kek Iev, also romanized as Kaing Guek Eav (Khmer: កាំង ហ្គេកអ៊ាវ), nom de guerre Comrade Duch
or Deuch (មិត្តឌុច); or Hang Pin, (born 17 November
1942) is a war criminal and former leader in the Khmer Rouge communist
movement, which ruled Democratic Kampuchea from 1975 to 1979. As the head of
the government's internal security branch, he oversaw the Tuol Sleng (S-21)prison camp where thousands were held for interrogation and torture. The first
Khmer Rouge leader to be tried by the Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of
Cambodia for the crimes of the regime, he was convicted of crimes against
humanity, murder, and torture for his role
during the Khmer Rouge
rule of Cambodia and sentenced to 30 years imprisonment. On February
3, 2012, his sentence was extended to life imprisonment by the Extraordinary
Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia.
Kang Kek Iew A.K.A Comrade Duch (PHOTO
SOURCE: http://talk-real-khmer-rouge.blogspot.com.au/2009/06/kang-kek-iew.html)
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Early
years
Kang
Kek Iew was born in Choyaot village, Kampong Chen subdistrict, Kampong Thom
Province, and is of Chinese-Khmer ancestry. A star pupil in his school, he
passed his Brevet d'Etudes Secondaire de Première in 1961 at the age of
nineteen. He finished the first half of his Baccalaureate in 1962 at the Lycée
Suravarman II in the town of Siem Reap. The same year he was offered a place in
the prestigious Lycée Sisowath in Phnom Penh where he completed his
Baccalaureate in mathematics, scoring second in the entire country.
Kang Kek Iew A.K.A Comrade Duch (PHOTO
SOURCE: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2093976/)
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Induction
into the Khmer Rouge
In
1964, Kek Iew began studying for his teaching certificate in Mathematics, a
subject he loved, at the Institut de Pédagogie. The Institute was a
cradle of activism under the directorship of Son Sen who was
later to emerge as the Defence Minister of the Khmer Rouge and Duch's immediate
superior.
On
28 August 1966, Kek Iew got his teaching certificate and was posted to a lycée
in Skoun, a small town in Kampong Cham Province. He was a good teacher,
remembered as earnest and committed by his pupils. He joined the Communist
Party of Kampuchea in 1967. Following the arrest of three of his students, he
fled to the Khmer Rouge base in Chamkar Leu District where he was accepted as a
full member of the Communist Party of Kampuchea.
A
few months later, he was arrested and tortured at the Prey Sar prison by
Norodom Sihanouk's police for engaging in communist activities. He was held
without trial for the next two years. In 1970, when he was released following
the amnesty granted to political prisoners by Lon Nol, he joined the Khmer
Rouge rebels in the Cardamom Mountains bordering Thailand.
Kang Kek Iew A.K.A Comrade Duch (PHOTO
SOURCE: http://thepoormouth.blogspot.com.au/2009/11/comrade-duch-asks-to-be-released-let.html)
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In
the maquis
Communist
groups in France's former colonies in Indochina borrowed the French World War
II expression 'maquis' when referring to their resistance
movements in the jungles.
In
the zone under the control of the Khmer Rouge, Kek Iew took on his nom de
guerre Comrade Duch (IPA:[dojc]) and became a prison commandant. He
was appointed the head of Special Security by his immediate superior Vorn Vet.
In the forests of Amleang, Thpong District, Duch set up his first prison,
code-named 'M-13'. Two years later, he also established a second prison 'M-99'
in nearby Aoral District.
Assisted
by his two deputies, Comrade Chan and Comrade Pon, Duch began perfecting his
interrogation techniques and the purging of perceived enemies from the Khmer
Rouge ranks. Prisoners at these camps, mostly from the ranks of the Khmer
Rouge, were routinely starved and tortured to extract real and made-up
confessions. On January 6, 1979, he was ordered by his superior to kill the
remaining prisoners. Few prisoners left the camps alive.
While
in the maquis (secret forest), Duch married Chhim Sophal, aka Rom, a dressmaker
from a nearby village.
Photographic display of inmates in Tuol Sleng
(one panel out of the many on display). Photo taken by me (Gary
Jones) April 2004
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Leading
the Santebal and Tuol Sleng
After
the Khmer Rouge victory in April 1975 Duch and his men set up prisons
throughout the capital including the infamous Tuol Sleng prison. Duch's request
for a transfer in May 1975 to the Industrial Sector of government was denied.
The Tuol Sleng prison camp was initially headed by In Lon aka Comrade Nath with
Duch acting as deputy. Subsequently, In Lon was transferred and Duch promoted
to be the Director. By May 1976 all the prisons in Phnom Penh were consolidated
and relocated to Tuol Sleng. Prisons like Tuol Sleng were created to cleanse
the ranks of the Khmer Rouge of suspected enemies of the revolution.
Duch
ordered the execution of prisoners after their interrogation was completed. For
example, on a list containing the names of 17 prisoners (eight teenagers and
nine children), he wrote the order “Smash them to pieces.” On a longer list of
detainees, his annotation reads “smash: 115; keep: 44 persons.” The text below
this annotation reads “Comrade Duch proposed to Angkar; Angkar agreed.” On a
list of 20 female detainees, Duch wrote annotations for each of them, ordering:
“take away for execution,” “keep for interrogation” or “medical
experiment". At least 100 detainees died after having their blood drawn
for transfusions for wounded soldiers. Surgical operations were also performed
on detainees in order to train medical staff.
Duch
impressed his superiors with his work and was appointed the head of Democratic
Kampuchea's dreaded "special branch" – the Santebal.
As
the party purges increased towards the end of the Democratic Kampuchea period,
more and more people were brought to Duch, including many former colleagues
including his predecessor at Tuol Sleng, In Lon. Throughout this period, Duch
built up a large archive of prison records, mug shots and extracted
"confessions".
On
7 January 1979, Duch was amongst the last Khmer Rouge cadres to flee Phnom Penh
after it fell to the Vietnamese army. Though he was unable to destroy much of
the prison's extensive documents, he saw to the execution of several surviving
prisoners before he fled the city.
Kaing Guek Eav aka Duch - Final Judgement
(PHOTO SOURCE: http://alfredmeier.me/2012/01/31/eccc-final-judgement-of-appeals-in-case-001/)
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After
the fall
Duch
reached the border with Thailand in May 1979. Details of his whereabouts at
this time were sketchy. It is believed that he went to the forests of Samlaut
where he was reunited with his family. Here Duch was demoted by Brother Number
Two, Nuon
Chea, for having failed to destroy the documents at Tuol Sleng. At the
border, he learned to speak Thai and taught himself English. He later taught
English and mathematics at a refugee camp in Borai just inside Thailand.
In
June 1986, Duch was sent to China to teach as a Khmer language expert at
Beijing's Foreign Language Institute. He returned to the Thai-Cambodian border
a year later and changed his name to Hang Pin. He worked as a senior bureaucrat
just inside the Cambodian border at Pol Pot's secretariat at Camp 505. Shortly
after the Paris agreement in October 1991, he moved with his family to a small
isolated village called Phkoam close to the Thai border where he bought some
land and began teaching in the local school. He was known as a good teacher,
but one with a fiery temper.
In
1995, following an attack on his home that killed his wife, Duch sold all his
possessions, secured a transfer to Svay Chek College, and moved there with his
children. Shortly after his wife's murder, Duch began attending the prayer
meetings of the Golden West Cambodian Christian Church held in Battambang by
Christopher LaPel, an evangelical Khmer-American. Duch was baptized by LaPel
and eventually became a lay pastor. LaPel was later to observe that although he
did not know Duch's real identify at the time, there were clues. For example,
before his conversion, Duch had said to Lapel that he had done a lot of bad
things in his life. Later, Duch was to say, "I
don’t know if my brothers and sisters can forgive the sins I've committed
against the people".
Kang Kek Iew A.K.A Comrade Duch (PHOTO
SOURCE: http://alfredmeier.me/2012/01/31/eccc-final-judgement-of-appeals-in-case-001/)
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Discovery
Close
to his identity being discovered, Duch accepted a transfer to Samlaut as
Director of Education. When fighting broke out in 1996 following the split of
the Khmer Rouge and the coup to oust Prince Rannaridh in 1997, he fled with his
family to the Ban Ma Muang camp just inside Thailand. At the camp, he worked
for the American Refugee Committee as the Community Health Supervisor. In late
1998, he returned to Cambodia when fighting subsided. He settled in the village
of Andao Hep in Rattanak Mondul and worked closely with World Vision
International, the Christian relief agency.
The
photojournalist Nic Dunlop tracked Duch down in Samlaut. In 1999, Nate Thayer,
who had previously interviewed Pol Pot and Ta Mok, and Dunlop interviewed Duch
for the Far Eastern Economic Review. Duch surrendered to the authorities in
Phnom Penh following the publication of his interview.
Trial
On
31 July 2007, Duch was formally charged with war crime and crimes against
humanity and detained by Cambodia's United Nations-backed Extraordinary
Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia. Duch, represented by Cambodian lawyer Kar
Savuth and French lawyer Francois Roux, appealed against his provisional
detention by the Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia based on the
more than eight years he spent without trial in Cambodian military detention.
The appeal was unsuccessful and on 14 August 2008, the tribunal issued its
indictment after completing their investigation of Duch.
In
February 2008, as part of the judicial process, Duch was taken to the scene of
his crimes. He reportedly collapsed in tears after stating, "I ask for
your forgiveness – I know that you cannot forgive me, but I ask you to
leave me the hope that you might."
On
16 February 2009, the UN supervised trial of Duch began at a Phnom Penh court.
Duch was prosecuted by international co-prosecutors William Smith and Anees
Ahmed and was charged with "personally overseeing the systematic torture
of more than 15,000 prisoners." The presiding judge of the case was Nil
Nonn. Duch was tried by a panel of five judges — three Cambodian, one
French and one New Zealander — according to a 2003 pact between Cambodia
and the United Nations establishing the tribunal.
On
30 March 2009, Duch testified that US policies in the 1970s contributed to the
brutal regime's rise to power. "I think the Khmer Rouge would already have
been demolished," he said of their status by 1970. "But Mr Kissinger
(then US secretary of state) and Richard Nixon were quick [to back coup leader
Gen Lon Nol], and then the Khmer Rouge noted the golden opportunity."
"Because of this alliance, the Khmer Rouge were able to build up their
power over the course of their 1970–75 war against the Lon Nol regime",
Duch said.
On
31 March 2009, Duch, in a statement in front of the Cambodia tribunal, accepted
responsibility for torturing and executing thousands of inmates, expressed
"heartfelt sorrow" for his crimes and vowed to cooperate fully with
the tribunal.
Duch
surprised the tribunal on 27 November 2009 with a plea to be released. In his
final statement before the tribunal he acknowledged his involvement in Khmer
Rouge-era crimes, including the execution of more than 12,000 Tuol Sleng
prisoners, but said they were committed by a "criminal party". Duch
also noted that he had served more than 10 years in detention, and stressed
that he had been fully cooperative with the tribunal. There were also
conflicting closing arguments from Duch's defense team. His Cambodian lawyer,
Kar Savuth demanded his client’s acquittal and release, while his international
counterpart, François Roux pressed judges to hand down a lenient sentence.
At
the conclusion of the trial, prosecutors asked that Duch be given 40 years in
prison if convicted. On 26 July 2010, Duch was found guilty of crimes against
humanity, torture, and murder; he was sentenced to 35 years' imprisonment, with
a pre-trial detention credit of 11 years being applied to his sentence and an
additional controversial five year deduction because his period of pre-trial
detention exceeded the maximum allowed under Cambodian law. On 3 February 2012,
an upper court U.N. war crimes tribunal rejected his appeal and extended his
sentence to life in imprisonment because of his "shocking and
heinous" crimes. This ruling is final with no other chance for appeal.
Kang Kek Iew A.K.A Comrade Duch (PHOTO
SOURCE: http://www.tomknoxbooks.com/bible-of-the-dead/bible-of-the-dead-comrade-duch/)
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INTERNET SOURCE: http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2053900,00.html
Monday, Jul. 12, 1999
The Killer and the
Pastor
By CAROLINE GLUCK
CAROLINE
GLUCK BattambangAre some acts of evil simply too heinous to be forgiven? Not
according to Cambodian-born pastor Christopher LaPel. Three years ago, he
baptized a man he believed to be a teacher in the muddy waters of the River
Sangke in western Cambodia's Battambang province. After more than 20 years of
hiding the truth, that same man recently revealed his true identity: Kang Khek
Ieu, better known by his revolutionary name Duch, head of the Khmer Rouge's
secret police. The man also confessed responsibility for the deaths of at least
12,000 people. I was shocked when I found out who he really was, because what
he did was so evil, says LaPel, whose parents, brother and sister died during
the Khmer Rouge reign of terror from 1975 to '79, along with nearly 2 million
others. Then I reflected: it's amazing; it's a miracle. Christianity changes
people's lives. If Jesus can change Duch, he can change anyone.
Few other Cambodians are likely to share this view or forgive the man who presided over the Khmer Rouge's security network. Many have reacted to news of his conversion to Christianity with skepticism. Duch, who was arrested by Cambodian authorities in May following his confession, is awaiting trial at a military detention center just a few blocks from S-21 (or Tuol Sleng), the top security prison he once commanded. Thousands of men, women and children were interrogated and tortured there before being executed.
Clad in a baseball cap, T shirt and flipflops, LaPel is an unlikely looking pastor. Though he makes his home in Los Angeles, he returned to Cambodia last week to conduct baptisms and training sessions so Cambodians can carry out missionary work in their communities. LaPel first met Duch (pronounced dook) in late 1995. Calling himself Hang Pin, Duch arrived with a colleague to take part in a two-week Christian leadership training course in the village of Chamkar Samrong in Battambang province, a former resettlement area for Cambodian refugees. According to LaPel, Duch initially was quiet and withdrawn. He said he was not a believer but had come at the urging of his friend. After listening to LaPel's sermons and teachings, however, Duch asked to be baptized. He changed totally after receiving Christ--180 degrees, says LaPel with a smile. He turned from hatred to love. He said he had never felt love in his childhood or when he grew up. So when he turned to Christ, love filled his heart.
LaPel says Duch's transformation took on physical dimensions. The gaunt, withdrawn man began to appear more relaxed, teasing his fellow students. He even began dressing better, tucking his shirt tails into his long pants. A group photograph taken in 1995 shows a smartly dressed Duch in a pressed white shirt and dark trousers. He is standing next to Pastor Christopher, whose hand rests protectively on Duch's shoulder.
LaPel remembers Duch well. Then 54, Duch was older than the others but also one of the brightest. After his baptism, he began sitting in the front row of the sessions, taking meticulous notes and asking questions. Duch, the pastor recalls, was full of enthusiasm and said he couldn't wait to return to his village in Svay Chek district to start a church. He later went on to establish a house church with 14 families.
In retrospect, LaPel says there were signs pointing to Duch's real identity. Before he received Christ, LaPel recalls, he said he did a lot of bad things in his life. He said: 'Pastor Christopher, I don't know if my brothers and sisters can forgive the sins I've committed against the people.' He said he felt remorse for what he had done to innocent people, adding: 'Thank God that the Lord forgives me.' LaPel did not probe further. When he leads people to Christ, he says, he doesn't inquire deeply into their past; instead he focuses on their present beliefs. If they are willing to repent and accept Jesus as their Lord and saviour, I will lead them to the Lord, no matter what they've done wrong in the past.
LaPel still wasn't aware of the notorious Khmer Rouge security chief's true identity when they met a year later, during a second Christian leadership course. But if he had looked closely at a photograph that's now displayed in Tuol Sleng prison, he would have known straight away. LaPel has visited the jail several times: a close cousin, a former science professor, was tortured there and later killed; her photograph also hangs on the wall. Still LaPel says he doesn't feel personal hatred for the only member of the Khmer Rouge to have confessed a role in the movement's killing machine. He sees Duch's willingness to admit his guilt, stand trial and testify against others as positive--and proof that his conversion to Christianity is genuine.
As LaPel wades into the murky waters of a small village in Banteay Meanchey province to baptize more than 100 people, he is convinced that Duch's conversion can only help the cause of Christianity in Cambodia, a predominantly Buddhist country where Christians make up less than 0.5% of the population. This is a story of hope for the Cambodian people. They've been going through darkness for years. Accepting Jesus Christ brings light to their lives. It's time for Cambodians to turn from hatred to love. But requesting forgiveness may be too much to ask.
Comrade Duch in the Dock
Born-again Khmer Rouge
prison director apologizes, asks for forgiveness in trial.
[ posted 4/2/2009
09:17AM ]
In
four years, Pol Pot's Khmer Rouge killed 1.7 million of their fellow
Cambodians. In the first trial
that addresses the horrors of the regime, the man known as Comrade Duch has
asked forgiveness for crimes against humanity, war crimes, homicide, and
torture.
Duch
is the nom de guerre of Kaing Guek Eav. He ran Security Center 21, a prison
where 17,000 people, including children were "smashed." As The Financial Times reports,
that's "the Khmer Rouge's chilling euphemism for torturing and murdering
victims as part of the regime's attempt to create a perfect agrarian
society."
Duch
is making the news for taking
responsibility and apologizing - something none of the other accused have
come close to. "At the beginning I only prayed to ask for forgiveness from
my parents, but later I prayed to ask forgiveness from the whole nation."
Prayed?
It's not a mistranslation. Duch
was baptized under the pseudonym Hang Pin after his wife was murdered in
1996. Purpose Driven
Connection published a story about his conversion
and discovery by British journalist Nic Dunlop (Dunlop discovered Duch's
identity; Mary Murphy wrote the Purpose Driven Connection article). Their
reporter, Mary Murphy, spoke to his pastor the only one who has been let in to
see him. He says Duch has been reading the Bible to prisoners and guards during
his imprisonment.
However,
Murphy reports,
Truth
be told, it is hard to find many in Cambodia who believe in Duch's sincerity.
[Chief investigator] Youk skirts around the spiritual implications of the
question. He pauses for a while to collect his thoughts. "I think Duch was
living with guilt and perhaps looking for something to reconcile with, within
himself," he says. "Duch is looking for an exit strategy, an internal
reconciliation with himself. But he dare not go to anybody here, because they
are all his enemies. The only ones he can go to are Christians."
Buddhist
monks I interview later at their temple are even more dismissive. "Duch
has become a Christian to earn points," one monk scoffs. "In our
belief, you take your sins with you to the next life. Duch will surely come
back in a form befitting his crime."
What
sort of form of life? The monk doesn't hesitate. "A bug."
Duch's
defense is arguing that he shouldn't face the life sentence because he was
following orders, trying to save his and his family's lives. He says he is a
scapegoat for those who were higher up in the regime. The trial is expected to
last a few months.
Kang Kek Iew A.K.A Comrade Duch (PHOTO
SOURCE: http://churchinperth.com/articles/timtay/articles-devotional/Devotional-Comrade-Duch-From-Zero-to-Hero-01.html)
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INTERNET SOURCE: http://churchinperth.com/articles/timtay/articles-devotional/Devotional-Comrade-Duch-From-Zero-to-Hero-01.html
Comrade Duch, From Zero to Hero
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by Timothy Tay
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In
1975 communist Khmer Rouge under Pol Pot took control of Phnom Penh, the
capital of Cambodia, Year
Zero was immediately declared as the year of the new beginning
for the nation.
What
unleashed from this revolutionary zeal was a scale in cruelty and brutality
unrivalled since Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia resulting in genocide
where 1.7 million Cambodians, a quarter of the existing population, perished.
There
is no institution that symbolised the cruelty of the Pol Pot regime more than
that of what took place at the high school of Tuol Sleng, converted into the
regime's interrogation centre, codenamed S-21. Kang Kek Lew, "Comrade
Duch", then aged 34, took charge of S-21.
By
the time of the Khmer Rouge's defeat in 1979 by invading Vietnamese forces,
more than 15,000 Cambodians and a few foreigners were sentenced to S21, none
except for a dozen survived.
A
news correspondence, Nic Dunlop, having earlier received a copy of the photo of
Comrade Duch, in 1998 took on a personal mission to track Duch down. He found
Duch, a provincial director of education, at the border with Thailand, by then
he had become a born-again Christian in the process of building a church next
to his house.
Duch
acknowledged his identity only after a few meetings with Dunlop and then
confessed of his crimes while at Tuol Sleng.
He
spoke of his new found faith and said, "My life is now in God's hand."
Nic Dunlop was pleasantly surprised at the ease of finding Duch and of his
ready confession.
Soon
after Dunlop published his findings the authorities in Phnom Penh brought Duch
back to Phnom Penh charged been a member of an outlaw party and immediately put
into detention. Before Duch was to stand trial under a UN-convened tribunal fn1
to try war criminals he was brought to Tuol Sleng, now a museum.
He
was immediately filled with sorrow and seeing some former detainees present at
the scene he readily sought their forgiveness.
At
the initial tribunal hearings Duch was obviously in great remorse when he read
out his confession, "I asked forgiveness to my parents, I asked
forgiveness from all my teachers, and I asked forgiveness to the victims of all
the crimes."
He
went as far as encouraging his accusers and survivors of Tuol Sleng testifying
at the tribunal to tell the truth, nothing but the truth, for "you cannot
cover up a dead elephant with just two tamarind leaves. The world needs to know
the truth."
Several
news coverage of Duch's criminal proceedings had made mention of the fact that
Duch is now a Christian -- an obvious reference to the way Duch had conducted
himself at the tribunal (see NTDTV
report).
Comrade
Duch, one of today's most notorious mass murderers, had experienced the transforming
power of faith in Jesus Christ not unlike what Paul experienced on the road to
Damascus 2000 years ago.
The
turnaround in Duch's life since becoming a Christian is also happening amongst
many Cambodians, estimated at 2 percent of the current population of 14
millions.
In
other parts of this great transformation story to come I will endeavour to
cover the works of various people and agency, both Cambodian and foreigner,
that had made Cambodia today one of the world's most exciting harvest fields.
OTHER LINKS:
PLEASE WATCH THIS
VIDEO TO HEAR ONE OF KANG’S APOLOGIES ON 20 MARCH 2009:
In
its judgement on appeals in Case 001 against Kaing Guek Eav alias Duch, the
Supreme Court Chamber of the Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia
(ECCC) affirmed the Trial Chamber's previous decision to compile and post on
the ECCC's official website all statements of apology and acknowledgements of
responsibility made by Kaing Guek Eav alias Duch during the course of the
trial, including the appeal stage. This video clip is part of the audio and
video version of this compilation. More information: http://www.eccc.gov.kh/en
VIDEO
SOURCE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjp4NVGuNjU
Final
statement from Kaing Guek Eav alias Duch 30 Mar 2011
Uploaded on Mar
30, 2011
Kaing
Guek Eav alias Duch delivered a 25 minutes final statement to the Supreme Court
Chamber of the Extraordinary Chambers in the Courts of Cambodia at the end of
the Appeal Hearing in Case 001 on 30 March 2011. Kaing Guek Eav asked the
Supreme Court Chamber to acquit him and release him. He was appealing a 35
years sentence imposed by the Trial Chamber on 26 July 2010. The Trial Chamber
found him guilty of crimes against humanity and grave breaches of the Geneva
Conventions for his role as Chairman of Khmer Rouge security center S-21. The
Co-Prosecutors requested the Supreme Court Chamber to increase the sentence to 45
years of imprisonment.
VIDEO SOURCE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS_vFa3RxZA
MY THOUGHTS:
Just like Rudolf Höss the Auschwitz Camp Commandant, Kang Kek Iew who became a
Christian was remorseful for his war crimes. He gave repeated apologies and
begged for forgiveness. Since he was given life imprisonment (which he deserved
it, the UN did not want any death sentences), I hope he can witness to people
in prison.
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